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Talk:Beguiling Haze
This skill seems really weak compared to Temple Strike now --Phoenixfire2001 12:24, 8 October 2006 (CDT) :Bear in mind that Temple Strike has no activation time, so it will take the normal attack time, plus it has to follow a lead, and it can be blocked. Yes, it's easier to get dazed on them and interrupt the *next* spell, but this will interrupt at any time. Plus you can stick this in a Deadly Arts build with Deadly Paradox when Nightfall comes out. In most cases, yeah it's weaker, but I can see some neat uses.Labmonkey 05:55, 10 October 2006 (CDT) ::Note also the lower energy cost then Temple Strike and the shorter recharge time. GhostBear 20:05, 9 December 2006 (CST) Jan 19th, 2007 Update This skills is now godly. Now buff Shadow Shroud!! Lightblade 18:15, 19 January 2007 (CST) :4 lines above the update link for it... "Theses changes are temporary, DO NOT update any Wiki pages with these changes!". In red even... 203.167.185.26 05:19, 20 January 2007 (CST) ::If the buff goes through it's <<<<<<<3333333 though. -Ichigo724 12:21, 20 January 2007 (CST) Poor casters, you got screwed by A.Net ~~ Take that for Me/E Blinding Surgers! - Abedeus 01:40, 2 February 2007 (CST) :Not to mention Blinding Surge itself got nerfed to 10 energy, so I bet the mesmers will switch to Mantra of Recovery for the elite slot now (after recent buff) -Esqu 06:03, 2 February 2007 (CST) Possible Buff? This skill's effect is awesome now, but I think it needs a small buff to balance it out. Compare it to other shadow-stepping skills: Shadow Prison costs 5e, teleports you to a target, and snares target with a hex. Aura of Displacement costs 10e, and teleports you to and from a target. So for these other two elite shadow step skills, each shadow step in the skill costs 5e, and Shadow Prison basically has a free hex tacked on (which is much more useful for off-hand combo openers...). The recharge of these 3 skills is the same, 20 seconds. So basically, with this skill you pay 10e for a 6 second Daze, if you max Shadow Arts. Considering how short Dazed lasts with Beguiling Haze, I think it could be balanced better by doing one of the following: lower energy cost to 10; increase Dazed duration by 2 seconds; or decrease recharge time to 15 seconds. Thoughts? --Insidious420 14:10, 2 February 2007 (CST) ye this needs a small daze boost--Blade (talk| ) 14:19, 2 February 2007 (CST) I played around with this skill today and, with proper Energy managment, it's pretty godly even with a mere 6 seconds of Daze. If you don't like that, use some Silencing daggers; that extends the Daze to 8 seconds, which is more than enough time for any respectable Assassin to finish a caster off in. Oh, and it's not a Hex like Shadow Prison (guy above said it was), so it won't work with Black Spider Strike or Black Lotus Strike the same way Shadow Prison does. 68.53.107.186 06:07, 3 February 2007 (CST) ::My point was not solely that Dazed is too short, like you say it lasts long enough for a competent assassin to disable & kill a caster. My point was the cost and recharge of the skill seem slightly too high for the skill's effect, especially when compared to other similar shadow-stepping elites. And I never said Beguiling Haze was a Hex, re-read what I wrote, I was just comparing all the elite shadow-step skills. But that was another of my points: the fact that Beguiling Haze doesn't have a hex or enchantment effect (like Shadow Prison and AoD) makes the energy cost of the skill even more difficult to work with. --Insidious420 13:31, 3 February 2007 (CST) :::Parasitic Bond, Siphon Speed, insert generic 5 energy/low recharge/low investment hex here. –Ichigo724 13:35, 3 February 2007 (CST) ::::Given that the Daze and Spell interrupt caused by Beguiling Haze is unconditional (and the fact that the Daze is applied interrupt or no), it would be hard to argue that Beguiling Haze is severely underpowered. However, I feel that boosting the Daze duration by a couple of seconds (preferably to 8 at 12 Shadow Arts, which is what Temple Strike has at 12 Dagger Mastery) would be sufficient to fully balance the skill out, even at 15 Energy. It has been my opinion that Shadow Prison as it is is overpowered, while its sister skill Dark Prison is very underpowered. 68.53.168.153 04:53, 4 February 2007 (CST) Gltich? I was messing around with this skill and I happened to notice that when used, the skill does NOT interupt targets... Anyone else try this out? It might only interupt spells because I noticed it interupted Guardian but not a skill like Shelter... Pestilence 16:37, 21 February 2007 (CST) :I noticed the same thing myself on the weekend change, haven't tested it myself since then though. –Ichigo724 16:56, 21 February 2007 (CST) ::It might only interrupt spells, like broad head or concussion. Did you see it fail to interrupt a spell or a non-spell? --Fyren 17:16, 21 February 2007 (CST) :::I only remember it failing on res sig. –Ichigo724 17:46, 21 February 2007 (CST) ::::That's what it seems, as of now... It really only interrupted if the target was casting a spell... So I guess the description would be more accurately relayed; "... if target is interrupted if casting a spell..."?? I didn't interrupt anything else, or so it seemed. It definitely dazed the target regardless, though. Pestilence 19:44, 21 February 2007 (CST) :::::Maybe a more accurate way to explain it: It may daze first, then deliver a packet of 0 damage to interrupt, resulting in only spells interrupted...? Just a thought, though. — Blastedt 15:49, 13 March 2007 (CDT) :::::Daze only interupts SPELLS not rez sig which a SIGNET not Shetler because it's a SPIRIT SUMMONING. ::::::Mabie it doesnt interupt because it desnt SAY it interupts and dazed ONLY interupt when hit whith an ATTACK, which this is NOT. Zan 19:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC) :::::::Or maybe Daze just interrupts on application. See this, too. --- -- (s)talkpage 19:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC) Another funny glitch with this skill is when you use it on a high ledge like the one over looking the area between the two gates in the fort asperwood mission. Even though the shadow step part of the spell fails, the target still gets interrupted and dazed. Quite funny to do that to an elementalist and her think "WTF? I don't see a ranger nearby!" :) --SavageX 02:01, 14 April 2007 (CDT) :I've seen something like that when I used necrotic traversal to get on Ruriks path in The Frost Gate. When I was below, melee creatures on the bridge above me could still attack me. -- (Talk) ( ) 15:10, 11 September 2007 (CDT) Skill now IMBA Before it was bad enough- now this is a real monk killer. IMBA BEYOND IMBA. 80.193.19.209 18:49, 16 June 2007 (CDT) :...or not --Rainbow ftw 19:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC) compare to temple strike: temple is an offhand, and haze is a shadowstep. if you look at an actual dagger chain from shadow step (assuming there is one) to dual attack, using haze you can cut out a shadowstep and throw in blinding powder for the same #of skills, and unblockable blind and daze. ne1 else with the same thoughts? :Can't really compare a weapon attack to a shadow step spell. --NYC Elite 19:55, 17 June 2007 (CDT) Main thing to consider here is your AP allocation. Many sins don't have the full 12 points in Shadow Arts to make good use of that daze timer, while it's more in the interest of a sin to get their Dagger Mastery up and be able to get that full 9-10 seconds of daze with Temple. BH vs TS Following up, TS has pretty much set the standard for sin dazing. 15e BH + another 5e Blinding Powder/Smoke Powder + 5e offhand is inferior, energy-wise to 15e TS + 5e Shadow Walk/Death's Charge and at the very least comparable to 15e TS + 10e Dark Prison, if you're leading with 5e Black Mantis and want a quick snare. BH + Blind + Offhand is still inferior energy wise in the snaring scenario, unless you're using Leaping Mantis Sting, in which case it's unreliable, and realistically, if you're using BH -> LMS to snare, you're going to waste at least a second or two of the already meager daze time to try to get the hit in. If they're standing still, LMS will mess up the Trampling Ox that you will most likely want to use. Also, while BH's main advantage here is that it dazes on step, unless you're using Smoke Powder Defense has only half the blind duration of TS, you're going ot have to wait after your offhand to apply blinding. One could argue for blocking, but as a religious sin player, blinding is usually better, because it can't be negated, only removed if you're applying conditions at all, especially 'powerful' shutdown conditions like daze/blind, you ought to cover with Twisting anyways, and all sin blinding skills are 5e less than blocking stances/enchants, especially important with the relatively high energy requirement of BH. As my above unsigned post stated, BH is topped off with a ridiculous Shadow Arts line requirement to be used effectively. PvE-wise, this is even more of a useless skill, unable to be spammed, and Fevered Dreams doesn't work with it because 8 seconds is not enough to make good use of this. Maybe, if party members were all fast-attacking, targeting a different spellcaste, it might be of marginal use, but regardless, BHA + Fevered Dreams still beats the pants off of this. While not quite as useless as Golden Skull Strike at the moment, BH is quite a dated skill. Obviously BH was designed to be used against traditional spellcasters -- get the jump on them and silence them. It requires high SA investment, so therefore it's not useful to Assassin primaries. What I see this skill aimed for is a W/As with an IAS, since they can work with will just high attributes in their Axe/Sword/Hammer mastery and SA. Considering the three Warrior Dazing skills, BH needs an upgrade. Headbutt has a massive energy cost and deals some nasty +dmg and is hard to prevent; Quivering Blade is highly conditional but very cheap and is linked to a weapon mastery; however, both of the former require Plague Touch. Skull Crack has a high adrenal requirement and can't really be built up ahead realistic way I can think of is W/P, "Make Haste" + Signet of Aggression. Based on the above, yes, BH is very competitive; however the daze on all of them Quivering is longer. I'd up the daze to 10 seconds @ 12 SA and call it even. Otherwise lower energy cost to 10 to make it an incentive for sin primaries to also use it. Either way, sin primary, or W/A, BH in its buffed state would not be imba and it's application still quite specific. Yes? Forgot to sign. 71.50.205.130 04:14, 28 December 2007 (UTC) : I use this skill with one of my ra setups on a sin. What kind of moron doesn't bring a self heal in any pvp match were your don't have a healer? the post above says its not useful to assassin primaries due to high shadow arts investment... get out and stop using build wiki, everyone needs a heal. I'm also not quite sure how to get a higher amount of points in shadow arts without being a sin primary, because I only need 10 SA to make my combo (no points in deadly arts for this setup) work 03:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC) :::: AB... most players in AB and TA can coordinate to get a healer in the team. GvG too most likely but I really don't GvG. RA is best done with self heal but that's because it's RA... Anyways this skill is only good for chaining with Iron Palm since now it's like the only useful Shadowstep without an aftercast. I run it at 0 SA, so it's just to set up IP for a KD chain. It's still VERY useless for dazing for any real amount of time. 12:11, 28 July 2008 (UTC) Aftercast I know the recent update didn't say it gave BH aftercast, but from what I have seen there is definetly a delay between Shadowstep and attack, maybe it's a bug? 15:38, 3 August 2008 (UTC) This + disrupting stab From my experiences this combines pretty well with disrupting stab. Though disrupting stab interrupts by definition, the daze can help to disable any spell your foe uses. Any thoughts? Maxxbrazuca 19:45, 7 September 2008 (UTC) :The fact that your target is Dazed means that the disable won't occur, because of how the game mechanics work, your target is interrupted by the Daze when it is applied, and then interrupted automatically whenever he is struck by an attack. Basically, the interrupt from hitting a Dazed opponent occurs before the interrupt from an attack skill, so the secondary effect (disable) is negated. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 20:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC) ::However, Protector's Strike is a nice followup, because of the fast activation time, increasing the chance to interrupt something (like 1/2s), or to deal some bonus damage. Then start some random-ass chain. --- -- (s)talkpage 20:35, 7 September 2008 (UTC) :::That works, but tbh, you don't really need two interrupts in a row; just use Beguiling Haze as an interrupt and follow-up the lame Iron Palm chain. Tbh, I laugh whenever a Sin tries to use the Beguiling Haze spike, because Iron Palm is too predictable and pretty damn easy to D-shot. XD [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 20:43, 7 September 2008 (UTC) ::::Hmm, there goes my theory out the window. Maxxbrazuca 16:22, 11 September 2008 (UTC) :::::On the other hand, Disrupting Stab always chains well with Exhausting Assault. (T/ ) 17:10, 11 September 2008 (UTC)